Benzin E85 ?

[Slowmotion]

Yesterday, for the first time, I have encountered a Tankstelle distributing the E85 benzin (85% bioetanol + 15% traditional benzin).
Preis?

1,09 Euro/Liter !

But... I was scared to fuel my old R850R with that benzin, so I tanked with traditional (high costing ) benzin (yes, shame on me).
After returning home, I've searched for informations on internet: E85 Benzin has 105 octan (more than the traditional one), so it should be ok for 99,99% of motorcycle... or I'm wrong?
Somebody has better informations about E85 fuel? It's safe to use?

By the way; there is no needs for complicate calculations: every 10 liter of fuel you save circa 5 euro from your pocket! WOW!

[TaunusRider]

E85 is not a traditional motor fuel - it's a so called Bioethanol.

Only vehicles with special equipment are allowed to use Bioethanol.

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tanken-k ... eId=127044

Never use E85 for your BMW Bike! You would destroy your engine!

[Slowmotion]

E85 is not a traditional motor fuel - it's a so called Bioethanol. Never use E85 for your BMW Bike! You would destroy your engine!

oops! It was too much beatyful to be real...
Anyway, thanks for your reply.

It's a sin that you have to modify your engine in order to use E85 (from 500 to 1500 euro) But I think that if benzin price will continue to raise up this will be a cheap solution!
It would be interesting to know if someboby has yet made the engine-modification experiment...

[TaunusRider]

Bioethanol is made from food.

Thus, you can be shure that bioethanol prices will rise in the future.

The world population is hungry.......

[Slowmotion]

Thus, you can be shure that bioethanol prices will rise in the future.

Maybe you're right. But for now, the only thing raising up is the price of E10, increasing almost every day!

Today at the OMV tankstelle in front of my haus: 1 Liter E10 = 1,73 Euro

The world population is hungry.......

yes is hungry, but more of benzin than food (obviously, this is only my personal opinion)

[helmi123 (inaktiv)]

yes is hungry, but more of benzin than food (obviously, this is only my personal opinion)

Tanken (E85) für die BMW ist nur möglich bei "bis 16° +° tiefer ist ohne Steuer Gerät nicht ohne Störung möglich.

Und für die Germanyyyyyy Crew hört endlich auf mit dem Schmarrrn von wegen Welt Hunger,
Brach liegende Felder sind vom Staatswegen Sub.... und das nicht wenig

[Slowmotion]

Tanken (E85) für die BMW ist nur möglich bei "bis 16° +° tiefer ist ohne Steuer Gerät nicht ohne Störung möglich.

High noise from the engine???

Und für die Germanyyyyyy Crew hört endlich auf mit dem Schmarrrn von wegen Welt Hunger,
Brach liegende Felder sind vom Staatswegen Sub.... und das nicht wenig

My google translator has gone in crash... sorry...

Anyway, there is a guy on the E85-dedicated forum that is suggesting me to try to modify the fuel injection parameters until the motor works regularly. That's all. It could be so "simple"? mmmmh....
Take a look here: http://ethanol85.info/forum/6-motorrad- ... w-r850r#28

Maybe the guy told me the truth. Maybe it's so simple... I don't know (honestly).

You know, there are enormous economic lobbies around the petrol, so I think that if you ask to any "official" source of information they will say something like:
"nooo, never try E85!", "E85 is the devil!", "E85 will destroy your engine!", "E85 will kill the ozono layer!", "It has be proven that E85 causes the loss of the hairs!"

[helmi123 (inaktiv)]

slow, E85 muß ein anderes Steuergerät bekommen ,wegen der höheren dichte und dem besseren Verbrennungsgrad, aber der besseren Verarbeitung.

E 85 sollte nicht ohne einer Medicacion vom Meister Gefahren werden,es geht aber auch ohne .

[Slowmotion]

slow, E85 muß ein anderes Steuergerät bekommen ,wegen der höheren dichte und dem besseren Verbrennungsgrad, aber der besseren Verarbeitung.

I discovered an old post (year 2006) it suggest 4 different modifications to use E85 fuel. More or less they are still valid nowdays:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=73061

The cheaper solution is... leave the engine untouched and mount bigger injectors. Simple and efficient.
Anyway, the argument is interessant...

E 85 sollte nicht ohne einer Medicacion vom Meister Gefahren werden,es geht aber auch ohne .

Did you see the news on ZDF yesterday evening? They transmitted a long report about E85 fuel in Germany.
As supposed, a serious famous professor (Nobel price, Pulitzer price, Cannes price, etc.) was repeating: "Noooo, don't buy it. E85 is not the solution! Not enough space to produce it."
I was laughing like a drunked rabbit
How much Shell payed him?

[aimypost]

A friend of mine has his car converted to e85:
http://www.nord-com.net/stoni/ethanol.html

Who appropriates a little knowledge can be converted vehicle suitable for everyday use in a way that even in the winter runs.

A start has been made easier when the E85 needs more than the size of the injectors is controlled (but not suitable for winter)
But remember: in a car before the explosion of demand is measured!

[Slowmotion]

Thanks aimy, the link you posted is really really interessant.
A lot of useful informations, even only about the Volvo.

To summarize, E85 has this "bad" characteristics:

1) has less energy than traditional benzin;
2) it's difficult to start the engine when it's cold.

Then, if you:

A) change only injectors then
---> engine works
---> engine performance are decreased
---> it's hard to start engine in winter

B) change injectors + modify electronic ECU (or buy a new one)
---> engine works
---> performance are similar as before
---> engine is still hard to start in winter

C) change injectors + modify electronic ECU (or buy a new one) + cold start device
---> engine works
---> performance are similar as before
---> engine starts normally even in winter

Is this right?

Anyway, I didn't understand when you wrote "in a car before the explosion of demand is measured!". May you explain it better please?

[Dr.Joe]

But don´t forget:

Due to the reduced energy content of E85 your engine would significantly consume more litres per distance. I believe that there will be no resulting positive impact on your wallet since you would need more of that cheap stuff.

Ciao
Joachim

[Dietmar Hencke]

Hi Slowmotion,
as you realise there is no better and more qualified advise available.
So you better now enter into real action:
Fill the tank with E85 and make a tour around Munich.

The results of this test would be interesting to everbody:

1) Either you save a lot of money by paying much less for the fuel and the bike is running smoothly.
2) Or you save a lot of money by paying much less for the fuel and the bike is running not at all.

Perhaps there will be even more options ...

[aimypost]

Anyway, I didn't understand when you wrote "in a car before the explosion of demand is measured!". May you explain it better please?

ach, sorry,
i meant the "Mass Air Flow Sensor".

[Slowmotion]

2) Or you save a lot of money by paying much less for the fuel and the bike is running not at all.

As I said above... when benzin price will touch level 1,80 per liter I will do test for sure.
In my first attempt I will tank 50% Super benzin and 50% E85 benzin.

[TaunusRider]

Irgendwie kann ich die Sinnhaftigkeit dieser Diskussion nicht nachvollziehen.

Bei 8.000 km Jahresfahrleistung und 5,5 Liter Spritverbrauch beträgt der theoretische jährliche Preisvorteil von E85 ca. 200 bis 250 Euro.

Davon abzuziehen sind die Umbaukosten. Zurück bleibt die große Frage, wie stark die Restlebensdauer des Motors durch den aggressiven E85 eingeschränkt wird......

Verzockt Euer Geld doch lieber in der nächsten Spielothek!

[Slowmotion]

Bei 8.000 km Jahresfahrleistung und 5,5 Liter Spritverbrauch beträgt der theoretische jährliche Preisvorteil von E85 ca. 200 bis 250 Euro.

Na ja... your consumption is, more or less, the same of my old R850R, and I was thinking the same of you...
but...
...redo your calculation when the Benzin will cost 1,80 €/liter:

Code: Alles auswählen

440 liter x 1,80 = 792 €
440 liter x 1,09 = 479,6 €
---------------------------
                 = +312,4 €

Consider also this: I'm sure that petrol companies are thinking about common people in this way: "nobody will convert to bioethanol, 'cause people cannot evaluate what they spend along long time, most part of them are limited/lazy/ignorant. They will never appreciate how many dollars we steal from their pocket during their life.... hahahahahah (president of Shell/British Petroleum is laughing)"

Now think that my motorbike was produced in 1997, think that I've done 120.000 km until now, think also that I plan to make the same kilometer (or more) in future (I pray God for this).
Now I let you to do calculations on how many Euro I could have now in my pocket if E85 was available before...

It's like smoking... you cannot evaluate how much money you spend in sigaretten during one year until... you stop!

post scriptum: I've quit smoking 2 months ago

[Dietmar Hencke]

I've quit smoking 2 months ago

Your AVATAR is still doing it

[Slowmotion]

Your AVATAR is still doing it

Ooooops!
Ok, die ist eine bioethanole zigarette!

[TaunusRider]

Please keep your Avatar.

I like it!